Curse

Sheriff · Jun 10, 2006, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Hi all,

The new 100AL armor gave me the idea of making a high hp build, or, so to speak, a "tough nut to crack"

Here's what I have so far:

W/Mo
Str 16 (12 + 1 + 3)
Sword 10 (9 + 1)
Healing 9

Skills:
Defy Pain (elite)
Endure Pain
Dolyak Signet
Berserker Stance
Leviathan Sweep (make sure you hit those annoying rangers)
Healing Breeze (or I Will Survive / Purge Conditions on condition-heavy areas)
Vigorous Spirit
Live Vicariously

So with high AL and 1000+ HP this is a difficult char to kill. It won't deal as much damage as a sword W, attack as many opponents as an axe W, or block everyone like a stance tactics W, but it's just a different build conception

One of the doubts I have with this build is the following: how much Str should I have?

16 Str (or 15 Str)
PROS:
- Lots of extra hps with Defy Pain + Endure Pain
- Can constantly keep Dolyak Signet up
- Big bonus to all str skills
CONS:
- 75 health taken from sup rune (50 with 15 Str - Major Rune)
- Lots of stat points spent to get Str to 13

14 Str
PROS:
- No HP loss from superior/major runes
CONS:
- not such a huge bonus to str skills
- shorter Endure Pain time, and less hp bonus on Endure + Defy

Also, would Mo be the best seconday for this? I have considered Rt for the +hp weapon and Necro for the +hp spell. Also maybe Elem for armor + conjure weapon (water) or wards (earth)

TIA for your opinions

jummeth · Jun 10, 2006, 10:32 AM // 10:32

What is this build for?

In a PvP situation...
Dolyak means you will not charge adrenaline since I can backstep faster than you. That means your defy pain is not on.
No DPS, so everybody will generally ignore you, and then gangbang you at the end.
Since you can't hit anything (dolyak) means that your LV/VS are not making hp.

In a PvE situation
Not meaning to be harsh, but this build only works in limited areas (ie. non-enchant shatter areas) There are a few more efficient ways of surviving. If you think about it, the average tank will have just under 550 hp to start with, with defy etc thats bumps it up to 700+. The base attack on an attax is like 300... but you lack any defensive stances.

Sheriff · Jun 10, 2006, 10:59 AM // 10:59

I am open to suggestions but... enchant-shatters don't do much of a dent to this build: I'll still have 100 AL per body part and 1000 hp.

This build would be for PvE. It is not intended for farming, although it may work in some places. I am aware that killing aatxes would be hard with this one, specially since this is not a damage dealer

The idea behind this build is the char that can withstand damage for the rest of the party. The "tank" so to speak. If you've played AD&D, think "Dwarven Defender"

jummeth · Jun 10, 2006, 11:09 AM // 11:09

why don't you just go 13str and 14tact as a stance tank then. The 75% blocks/evades will count for much more than the extra 300hp you have, even then you can still use defy+endure for emergencies.

Shield stance 20secs 75%block
Bonetti's 10secs 75%block
Dolyak +36AL
Defy +20AL
Watch yourself +20AL
Flurry for adren
Reposte/D.Reposte/Heal-Sig
Res

Sheriff · Jun 10, 2006, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Yes I know how good stance tanks are

I have played a constant 75% stance tank for ages (Gladiator + Bonetti + Shield stance), and am aware of their power.

However, I wanted to do something different this time.

aB- · Jun 10, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

While the idea sounds good, a stance tank is simply much more effective. The 75% chance to block/evade attacks gives an effective 2000 HP on a 500 HP warrior. I like the idea, but I'm afraid it's not as effective as a stance tank.

Sheriff · Jun 10, 2006, 10:51 PM // 22:51

I would generally agree that a Stance tank is superior to a hp tank. As I said, I have played (and really enjoyed!) Stance W with 16 Tactics and 8 tactics skills.

I wanted to try to build something different this time...

I have to say that there are however circumstances in which 1000 hp would come in handy instead of stances. Vs shadow dmg, or chaos (illusionnary phantasm and the likes) or even some AoE spells.

MercenaryKnight · Jun 11, 2006, 08:02 AM // 08:02

Warrior/ele or warrior/mesmer would probably be better... armor of earth or physical resistance for even more armor instead of focusing on healing.

Aussie AJMW · Jun 11, 2006, 09:21 AM // 09:21

u could go the w/mo prot get vital spell give u a permanent health bonus aswell as chuck in a shielding hands.

Jestah · Jun 11, 2006, 11:08 AM // 11:08

Tanking is a pretty flawed idea in PvE now. With the improved AI and no book/gear/keg trick you'd be lucky to get even half of a mob to attack you exclusively.

I've just been to FoW twice with 2 seperate warrior builds. Usually 5/6 man is horrendously slow and I experienced it first hand the first time we went down. The tank couldnt hold aggro even with none shall pass and snare. Defense wise it didn't matter thanks to the bonder but offensively it was imposible to mob them up well enough to get any effective AoE.

Second time we dropped 1 nuker for another warrior and had both Warriors take Bestial Fury (with zealous mod) and god damn was it fast. Added bonus was that 2 x Eviscerate really slowed down the Shadow Monks healing too.

I think that Warrior's are so overused as Tanks that they usually get overlooked as offensive characters in PvE. Personally I haven't found a single area where a tank is actually of much use besides in solo/duo situations. I'd take a bonder over a tank 10 times out of 10.

Evilsod · Jun 11, 2006, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by aB-

While the idea sounds good, a stance tank is simply much more effective. The 75% chance to block/evade attacks gives an effective 2000 HP on a 500 HP warrior. I like the idea, but I'm afraid it's not as effective as a stance tank.

Erm... if your talking about an area thats inhabited purely by Warriors and Rangers yeah. A 75% evasion tank has nowhere near an effective 2000hp since everything a caster does either ignores armour (Obsidian Flame/Crystal Wave, Degen or just about anything a Mesmer does) or can't be avoided with normal evasion stances. Even then stances are only useful in some areas, try using a stance vs the Charr or Skeleton Berserkers, its ended faster than you can even get Adren for Defy. Imho, stance tanking using Shield Stance and the likes sucked. Armour > Evasion when your going to be the damagemagnet when most damage in general can't be evaded.

As Jestah said though... stance tanking has passed its usefulness. About time too, getting sick of having to take damage rather than dish it out... Although tbh i'd rather take neither a Stance Tank or a Bonder. Bonders are only there if your either a useless monk or a dumb team (not including 4-6 mans). They just steal the place that a Mesmer can fill

Jestah · Jun 11, 2006, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Yeah true about the bonder thing but when you don't have the luxury of 8 people (due to being a selfish shard wh*re) a bonder can really be the deciding factor. Such as the icehands/ether breakers in FoW. I know its pretty dumb to group up in AoE but Energy Surge and Nukes can almost be a spike without a bonder especially when they pack snares too.

Bonder is however the most unbelievably boring build to play ever. Blessed spamming ftl.

Sheriff · Jun 11, 2006, 07:55 PM // 19:55

So... can anyone give me suggestions to improve my build?

I've considered swapping sword for Axe in order to gain more adrenaline with cyclone axe. I've definitely been having an easier time staying alive (this is for PvE remember) but definitely not a good build to deal damage.

Jestah · Jun 11, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

PvE or not it's the monk that should keep you alive, the only thing you need for yourself is a basic heal. It doesn't hurt to have a little defense but to take an entire bar of it only to be ignored by everything is a waste of a party slot. Try this for PvE. I know it looks like a PvP build minus speed buff but it's a damn sight more effective than spamming stances while no one actually attacks you.

Standing Slash
Silverwing Slash
Galrath Slash
Dragon Slash
Bestial Fury / Tiger's Fury
For Great Justice
Troll Unguent / Healing Signet
Res Signet

You'll probably need a zealous axe to cope with the cost of Fury. Use 'For Great Justice' and then the first 4 skills in that order and you'll have a permanent chain for 20 seconds without needing to recharge the adreneline.

Scown-dog · Jun 11, 2006, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by jummeth

What is this build for?

In a PvP situation...

In a PvE situation
Not meaning to be harsh, but this build only works in limited areas (ie. non-enchant shatter areas) There are a few more efficient ways of surviving. If you think about it, the average tank will have just under 550 hp to start with, with defy etc thats bumps it up to 700+. The base attack on an attax is like 300... but you lack any defensive stances.

I think its obvious this build will not be used in pvP. In pvE i don't see how enchantment removal will cripple this build. The +armour and +hp don't come from enchantments. The only enchantments here are small heales that arent neccessary if the group has a monk.

Jestah · Jun 11, 2006, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Yeah on the other hand the entire build is pointless before enchant removal so it's a moot point.